But is all gambling/betting wrong?
If I invest in Google because I want them to use my money to build a better company, and get me a return on my money - that's not gambling. But if I invest in Google to buy-low-sell-high, then I am gambling on the market. Then I don't care what they do with my money, I just want to gamble on the market and pull some money out.
That's what happens with my IRA and your 401k every day.
What brought this up is the future markets at intrade.com . You can buy (you want shares to go up) or sell (you want shares to go down) on possibilities for the future. Today I could sell you a share of "Obama wins the election" for $6, and if he wins the election, you get $10 - a profit of $4 per share from me, or if he loses, I keep the $6 you paid me to buy the share. You can sell your shares at any time to try to make money or cut your losses.
Is that gambling? Seems to be. Is that wrong?
If it is wrong, doesn't that means it's wrong to have a retirement account that works the same way by trading stocks to try to make a profit?
Let me know what you think (comment form).
Nice touch with the linked comment form. Handy. :)
This is a lot to process through, because you're right that buying/selling stocks for profit does seem to be a form of gambling. A bit more predictable than gambling, but still -- you're betting on a set of stakes and hoping it to go a certain way so that you can make money without really having to do anything.
That can't be right, can it?
This issue of unjust financial gain is something I've been wrestling with more and more often in the last few years -- especially as I see how we as Christians are willing to work the system to get as much as we can out of it financially. I don't think this is how Jesus intended us to be living.
So how do gambling/the stock market/IRAs fit into the example He set for us? I don't know. We've seen the negative effects living this way has on our economy (can't we trace at least some of the inflation on gas prices to day-traders who specialize in the oil market?) -- it does seem that we shouldn't be participating in any form of that.
Hmmm ...
Maybe I should come back when my thoughts are a bit more coherent.
Yes - the whole topic makes me wonder why gambling is wrong. Most of us who set aside money for retirement are gambling with all of our savings.
It's not just that making money with money is bad - Jesus spoke very highly of those who invested money and got a return on it.
It's got to be who the money is being taken from and how? And.. about being wise with money and not throwing it away?
I think it's more making wise choices with your money (which makes it "investing" instead of "gambling", although you could argue that's just semantics), which IS biblical. If I have done all my research and believe that Google stock is going to go up, then that's a wise investment choice. I have, in fact, invested my "talents" in something for a good return.
On the other hand, it's a fact that statistically, the lottery is pretty much impossible to win, so "investing" in it really is a gamble. Thus, not a wise investment choice, and therefore, not a good use of my talent. Better to bury it in the dirt so I still have it rather than give it to the lottery commission.
In my perception, I'd say the standard argument for "why gambling is wrong" is usually connected more with "because it's easy to become addicted to it" than "it's a bad investment", but maybe that's just me. Frankly, that's why I wouldn't gamble (I mean gamble, gamble. Like in Vegas. I did play the slot machines a couple times, but with a pre-set limit, and then I walked away when it was gone. I did not make a profit). I fear its addictive properties. And I'm pretty sure that that is why it's wrong.
@ Jen -- not sure what you mean about unjust financial gain. And also "we as Christians are willing to work the system". You mean Christians being willing to cheat on their taxes, or something else? Frankly, that scares me. I'm totally unwilling to work the system. But then, my dad was Dutch and I see things in black and white :)
Last, I'd say that there's a better way to "spend" your money -- if you set aside the investment issue, we all know that giving a meal to an orphan is a better use of $6.00 than buying lottery tickets. I think your last paragraph in your comment to Jen hits it on the head, Jon.
The real last -- this is a topic we've thrown around in our house recently -- in part seriously, and in part in jest: if God wanted to bless me with a windfall ... because He knew that I would use it for good (send Jen to Mongolia, sponsor children in Africa, help my church buy a building, etc.), wouldn't the lottery be an awesome (easy?) way to do it? Perhaps the lottery is a vehicle God can use to give me the money He wants to so I can do His work?
I know, it's silly. But what if?
@antof9 - Certainly if God wanted you to win the lottery he could do it without you even buying a ticket - it is God after all.
My problem with the lottery and casinos is that you're giving money to the people who will spend it trying to get/keep people addicted to gambling so they can continue to take their money. Every dollar spent is a vote for the people you're giving it to.
It seems that gambling on the stock or futures market isn't giving money to individuals bent on taking advantage of people.
So I guess I don't really have a problem with gambling on your own poker skills or the markets, unless it becomes an addictive behavior. In those cases, I guess it's like tasty food - eating tasty food is only wrong when it becomes gluttony.
Jon, I really like that question about who the money is being taken from and how. I think that's probably a great question to start considering when we think about how we invest our money. (Not that I'd know the answer to that since some bank is investing on behalf of me in my retirement account.)
Ant, regarding unjust financial gain ... it sort of goes hand in hand with my comment about Christians working the system. I guess I'm just scared by the fact that more and more people I know are becoming "financial planners" and that "financial peace" seems to be the new buzz word when we talk about how we deal with money. I agree that we are meant to be wise and not foolish with our investments, but in the early church we see Christians giving their money away -- over and over again -- and it just seems that in the quest to secure our emergency accounts and tax refunds, we've missed the whole point. I guess I'm just worried that when we think about money, we're thinking more about money market accounts than how we can make a difference in the lives of people who are in need.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be careful, I'm just afraid of getting too comfortable with the middle-class way. I don't ever want to stop questioning the decisions I make regarding finances or wondering if I'm doing what God wants me to do with the money he's given me. I don't want to hold so tightly to security that I forget how to trust.
All this from a post about gambling. :)